Chapter 61: The Chapter of Answering Rama's Son [Part 2]

[The following represents an unverified English translation. For all purposes consult the original Chinese text.]

[0757b14] "At that time, there was another great teacher in the land of Jambudvipa (閻浮提地 [yan fu ti de]), whose name was Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]). After he died, the leader of his assembly was his eldest son, Uddaka Ramaputta (優陀羅羅摩子 [you tuo luo luo mo zi]). He led the assembly and constantly spoke to them about the state of no-thought and non-no-thought (非想非非想法 [fei xiang fei fei xiang fa]). He lived in a quiet forest near the city of Rajagriha (王舍城 [wang she cheng]). At that time, the Bodhisattva heard his name and thought that his teachings were better than what Arada Kalama (羅邏 [luo luo]) had taught. After hearing this, he thought, 'I should now go to Uddaka Ramaputta (優陀羅羅摩子 [you tuo luo luo mo zi]) and practice the Brahma-vihara (梵行 [fan xing]).'

[0757b14] “ěr shí, yú cǐ yán fú tí de, fù gèng bié yǒu yī dà dǎo shī, míng yuē luó mó. qí mìng yǐ zhōng, bǐ tú zhòng zhǔ, jí mó zhǎng zi, míng yuē yōu tuó luó luó mó zi, zhǔ lǐng bǐ zhòng. qí yōu tuó luó, cháng wèi bǐ zhòng, shuō shēng fēi xiǎng fēi fēi xiǎng fǎ, jìn wáng shě chéng, yī ā lán ruò lín zhōng ér zhù. shì shí pú sà, yáo wén qí míng shèng qián luó luó suǒ shuō zhī fǎ, wén yǐ sī wéi: ‘wǒ jīn yīng dāng zhì yōu tuó luó luó mó zi biān, xíng yú fàn xíng.’

[0757b14] "er shi, yu ci yan fu ti de, fu geng bie you yi da dao shi, ming yue luo mo. qi ming yi zhong, bi tu zhong zhu, ji mo zhang zi, ming yue you tuo luo luo mo zi, zhu ling bi zhong. qi you tuo luo, chang wei bi zhong, shuo sheng fei xiang fei fei xiang fa, jin wang she cheng, yi a lan ruo lin zhong er zhu. shi shi pu sa, yao wen qi ming sheng qian luo luo suo shuo zhi fa, wen yi si wei: 'wo jin ying dang zhi you tuo luo luo mo zi bian, xing yu fan xing.'

[The following represents an unverified English translation. For all purposes consult the original Chinese text.]

[0757b21] "At that time, the Bodhisattva left the dwelling place of Arada Kalama (阿羅邏 [a luo luo]) and walked gracefully. He crossed the Ganges River (恒河 [heng he]) and, after asking for directions, arrived at his place. He said, 'Venerable Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo])! I wish to receive your teachings and practice the Brahma-vihara (梵行 [fan xing]) with you.' Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) said to the Bodhisattva, 'Virtuous Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan])! As I see it, you, Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan]), are a wise person and are capable of receiving my dharma (法 [fa]) and practicing the Brahma-vihara (梵行 [fan xing]). If you wish to receive the dharma (法 [fa]) and practice the Brahma-vihara (梵行 [fan xing]), you must follow my dharma (法 [fa]), and the pure results will be attained.'

[0757b21] “ěr shí, pú sà cóng ā luó luó jū chù ér chū, ān xiáng ér xíng, dù yú héng hé, jiè wèn jì zhī, jí dào qí suǒ, ér bái zhī yán: ‘rén zhě yōu tuó! wǒ yú rén biān, yù shòu jiào huì, xíng yú fàn xíng.’ shí yōu tuó luó gào pú sà yán: ‘dà dé qú tán! rú wǒ suǒ guān jiàn yú qú tán, jì shì zhì rén, kān shòu wǒ fǎ, ér xíng fàn xíng. ruò yù shòu fǎ xíng fàn xíng shí, xū shùn wǒ fǎ qīng jìng yè guǒ, ér dé xíng bào.’

[0757b21] "er shi, pu sa cong a luo luo ju chu er chu, an xiang er xing, du yu heng he, jie wen ji zhi, ji dao qi suo, er bai zhi yan: 'ren zhe you tuo! wo yu ren bian, yu shou jiao hui, xing yu fan xing.' shi you tuo luo gao pu sa yan: 'da de qu tan! ru wo suo guan jian yu qu tan, ji shi zhi ren, kan shou wo fa, er xing fan xing. ruo yu shou fa xing fan xing shi, xu shun wo fa qing jing ye guo, er de xing bao.'

[The following represents an unverified English translation. For all purposes consult the original Chinese text.]

[0757b28] "At that time, the Bodhisattva received the dharma (法 [fa]) from Uddaka Ramaputta (優陀羅羅摩子 [you tuo luo luo mo zi]) and practiced it, seeking the shramana (沙門 [sha men]) dharma (法 [fa]) and the shramana (沙門 [sha men]) path. He respectfully clasped his hands and said, 'Venerable Sir! What is the realm that you, Venerable Sir, practice? Please explain it to me.' Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) said to the Bodhisattva, 'Virtuous Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan])! To grasp at form and non-form is a great trouble, a great ulcer, a great boil, a great foolishness, and a great darkness. If one contemplates it subtly, one will attain that subtle state of existence. To be able to explain the steps in this way is what is called quiet concentration, which is a subtle, supreme, and ultimate liberation. The result of this liberation is to reach the state of no-thought and non-no-thought (非想非非想處 [fei xiang fei fei xiang chu]). I practice this supreme and wonderful dharma (法 [fa]).' Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) also said, 'In the past, there was no better quiet concentration than this state of no-thought and non-no-thought (非想非非想處 [fei xiang fei fei xiang chu]). There is none now, and there will be none in the future. This practice is the most supreme, most wonderful, and most ultimate. I practice this practice.'

[0757b28] “ěr shí, pú sà yú yōu tuó luó luó mó zi biān shòu fǎ xíng xíng, qiú shā mén fǎ, shā mén shì gù, gōng jìng hé zhǎng bái yán: ‘rén zhě! wèi shěn rén zhě suǒ xíng zhī fǎ, zhì hé jìng jiè, wèi wǒ jiě shuō.’ qí yōu tuó luó gào pú sà yán: ‘dà dé qú tán! fán qǔ yú xiāng jí fēi xiāng zhě, cǐ shì dà huàn, dà yōng dà chuāng, dà chī dà àn, ruò xì sī wéi, jí dé shòu bǐ wēi miào yǒu tǐ, néng zuò rú shì cì dì jiě zhě, cǐ míng jì dìng, wēi miào zuì shèng zuì shàng jiě tuō. qí jiě tuō guǒ, wèi zhì fēi xiǎng fēi fēi xiǎng chù, wǒ xíng yú cǐ zuì shèng miào fǎ.’ qí yōu tuó luó yòu fù gèng yán: ‘yú cǐ fēi xiǎng fēi fēi xiǎng chù, guò qù zhī shì, wú shèng jì dìng, xiàn zài jì wú, dāng lái yì wú, cǐ xíng zuì shèng zuì miào zuì shàng, wǒ xíng cǐ xíng.’

[0757b28] "er shi, pu sa yu you tuo luo luo mo zi bian shou fa xing xing, qiu sha men fa, sha men shi gu, gong jing he zhang bai yan: 'ren zhe! wei shen ren zhe suo xing zhi fa, zhi he jing jie, wei wo jie shuo.' qi you tuo luo gao pu sa yan: 'da de qu tan! fan qu yu xiang ji fei xiang zhe, ci shi da huan, da yong da chuang, da chi da an, ruo xi si wei, ji de shou bi wei miao you ti, neng zuo ru shi ci di jie zhe, ci ming ji ding, wei miao zui sheng zui shang jie tuo. qi jie tuo guo, wei zhi fei xiang fei fei xiang chu, wo xing yu ci zui sheng miao fa.' qi you tuo luo you fu geng yan: 'yu ci fei xiang fei fei xiang chu, guo qu zhi shi, wu sheng ji ding, xian zai ji wu, dang lai yi wu, ci xing zui sheng zui miao zui shang, wo xing ci xing.'

[The following represents an unverified English translation. For all purposes consult the original Chinese text.]

[0757c10] "At that time, the Bodhisattva, having heard this dharma (法 [fa]), contemplated it and verified it in a short time. The Bodhisattva believed what he heard from his mouth and, following his words, thought to himself, 'I can also attain this kind of dharma (法 [fa]). I can also know it. What he says is true and not empty. What I can see now, I can see; what I can know, I can know.' He said to Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) again, 'It is not only your father, Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]), who had faith and practice. I also have such faith and practice. It is not only he who had diligent practice, right mindfulness, dhyana (禪定 [chan ding]), and wisdom; I also have them, even wisdom. I am now practicing his dharma (法 [fa]) and learning from Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]), and after verifying the dharma (法 [fa]) myself, I will proclaim it to others. Because I know this dharma (法 [fa]) and see this dharma (法 [fa]), I want to seek something higher.'

[0757c10] “ěr shí pú sà wén cǐ fǎ yǐ, sī wéi bù jiǔ jí zhèng cǐ fǎ. shì shí pú sà, cóng yú bǐ biān suí kǒu suǒ chū, wén yǐ xīn xìn, suí shùn bǐ yǔ, ér zuò shì niàn: ‘rú cǐ zhī fǎ, wǒ yì kě dé, wǒ yì kě zhī, shí yǔ wú xū, wǒ jīn suǒ kě, jiàn jí néng jiàn, zhī jí dé zhī.’ fù yǔ yú bǐ yōu tuó luó yán: ‘fēi dàn rén zhě, xī fù luó mó, dú yǒu xìn xíng, wǒ jīn yì yǒu rú shì xìn xíng, fēi bǐ dú yǒu jīng jìn zhèng niàn chán dìng zhì huì, wǒ jīn yì yǒu nǎi zhì zhì huì. wǒ yú jīn zhě, xíng bǐ fǎ xíng, xué yú luó mó, zì zhèng fǎ yǐ, wèi tā xiǎn shuō, zhī bǐ fǎ gù, jiàn bǐ fǎ gù, gèng yù qiú shèng.’

[0757c10] "er shi pu sa wen ci fa yi, si wei bu jiu ji zheng ci fa. shi shi pu sa, cong yu bi bian sui kou suo chu, wen yi xin xin, sui shun bi yu, er zuo shi nian: 'ru ci zhi fa, wo yi ke de, wo yi ke zhi, shi yu wu xu, wo jin suo ke, jian ji neng jian, zhi ji de zhi.' fu yu yu bi you tuo luo yan: 'fei dan ren zhe, xi fu luo mo, du you xin xing, wo jin yi you ru shi xin xing, fei bi du you jing jin zheng nian chan ding zhi hui, wo jin yi you nai zhi zhi hui. wo yu jin zhe, xing bi fa xing, xue yu luo mo, zi zheng fa yi, wei ta xian shuo, zhi bi fa gu, jian bi fa gu, geng yu qiu sheng.'

[The following represents an unverified English translation. For all purposes consult the original Chinese text.]

[0757c19] "At that time, the Bodhisattva, having verified this dharma (法 [fa]), said to Uddaka Ramaputta (優陀羅羅摩子 [you tuo luo luo mo zi]), 'Did your father, Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]), verify and know this state of no-thought and non-no-thought (非想非非想處 [fei xiang fei fei xiang chu]) himself and then speak of it to others?' Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) said, 'Virtuous Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan])! My father did.' The Bodhisattva replied, 'You, Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo])! I have now understood and verified this practice.' Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) said to the Bodhisattva, 'Virtuous Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan])! If that is so, then you are no different from my father, Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]). Virtuous Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan])! If you now know these dharmas (法 [fa]) and have practiced them, you can be like my father, the Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]) sage, and lead this great assembly, teach, and reveal the dharma (法 [fa]).' Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) himself had practiced the Brahma-vihara (梵行 [fan xing]) without deficiency, but he only considered the Bodhisattva to be an equal in practice. He offered the Bodhisattva the most supreme offerings, and his mind was filled with joy, which he could not contain.

[0757c19] “ěr shí pú sà zhèng shì fǎ yǐ, bái yōu tuó luó luó mó zi yán: ‘rén zhě fù xī yú cǐ fēi xiǎng fēi fēi xiǎng chù, zì zhèng zhī jiàn, xiàng tā shuō yé?’ yōu tuó luó yán: ‘dà dé qú tán! wǒ fù rú shì.’ pú sà bào yán: ‘rén zhě yōu tuó! wǒ jīn yǐ tōng, zhèng zhī fèng xíng.’ qí yōu tuó luó bái pú sà yán: ‘dà dé qú tán! ruò qí rán zhě, rén yǔ wǒ fù luó mó wú yì. dà dé qú tán! rén jīn ruò zhī cǐ děng zhū fǎ yǐ fèng xíng zhě, kě rú wǒ fù luó mó xiān rén, lǐng cǐ dà zhòng, jiào shì xuān tōng.’ shí yōu tuó luó, jì zì xiū xíng, fàn xíng bù què, dàn qǔ pú sà tóng xíng jiàn lì. pú sà ruò tóng, fǎ zhì zēng shàng, gōng yǎng zuì shèng gōng yǎng pú sà, xīn shēng huān xǐ, bù néng zì shèng.

[0757c19] "er shi pu sa zheng shi fa yi, bai you tuo luo luo mo zi yan: 'ren zhe fu xi yu ci fei xiang fei fei xiang chu, zi zheng zhi jian, xiang ta shuo ye?' you tuo luo yan: 'da de qu tan! wo fu ru shi.' pu sa bao yan: 'ren zhe you tuo! wo jin yi tong, zheng zhi feng xing.' qi you tuo luo bai pu sa yan: 'da de qu tan! ruo qi ran zhe, ren yu wo fu luo mo wu yi. da de qu tan! ren jin ruo zhi ci deng zhu fa yi feng xing zhe, ke ru wo fu luo mo xian ren, ling ci da zhong, jiao shi xuan tong.' shi you tuo luo, ji zi xiu xing, fan xing bu que, dan qu pu sa tong xing jian li. pu sa ruo tong, fa zhi zeng shang, gong yang zui sheng gong yang pu sa, xin sheng huan xi, bu neng zi sheng.

[The following represents an unverified English translation. For all purposes consult the original Chinese text.]

[0757c29] "At that time, the Bodhisattva said to Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]), 'Venerable Sir! This dharma (法 [fa]) cannot lead to ultimate liberation from all desires, the extinction of kleshas (煩惱 [fan nao]), and the quiet one-pointedness of mind, the exhaustion of all outflows, and all supernatural powers. It cannot lead to the attainment of the shramana (沙門 [sha men]) path and great Nirvana (涅槃 [nie pan]). This dharma (法 [fa]) will still return to samsara (生死 [sheng si]). Why? Because after one is born in the state of no-thought and non-no-thought (非想非非想處 [fei xiang fei fei xiang chu]), when the results are exhausted, one will return to kleshas (煩惱 [fan nao]).' After he said this, Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) said to the Bodhisattva, 'Virtuous Gautama (瞿曇 [qu tan])! Have you not heard? My father, Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]), although he verified this dharma (法 [fa]), he was not aware or did not know about all things. After he was born in the state of no-thought and non-no-thought (非想非非想處 [fei xiang fei fei xiang chu]), he would return to samsara (生死 [sheng si]). This is not so. He does not take a later birth, nor does he see the place of birth.' Although Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) had attained this dharma (法 [fa]) of quiet concentration and shamatha (奢摩他 [she mo ta]), he could not seek the most supreme dharma (法 [fa]). He only said, 'My father, Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]), said this.' The Bodhisattva thought, 'This dharma (法 [fa]) is not ultimate. I should not cling to this dharma (法 [fa]).' He then left Uddaka (優陀羅 [you tuo luo]) and turned his back on him. There is a verse that says:

"'The Bodhisattva contemplated this dharma (法 [fa]), and although Rama (羅摩 [luo mo]) had practiced it in the past, since it was not the ultimate vehicle of liberation, he turned his back and departed.'

[0757c29] “ěr shí, pú sà yǔ yōu tuó luó zuò rú shì yán: ‘rén zhě! cǐ fǎ bù néng jiū jìng jiě tuō zhū yù, miè yú fán nǎo, jì dìng yī xīn, jǐn zhū jié lòu, jí zhū shén tōng, chéng shā mén xíng, dào dà niè pán. cǐ fǎ hái huí rù yú shēng sǐ. suǒ yǐ zhě hé? jì shēng fēi xiǎng fēi fēi xiǎng chù, bào jǐn hái huí rù yú fán nǎo.’ zuò shì yǔ yǐ, qí yōu tuó luó bái pú sà yán: ‘dà dé qú tán! kě bù wén zhī? wǒ fù luó mó, suī zhèng cǐ fǎ, ér yī qiè chù bù jué bù zhī, yǐ shēng fēi xiǎng fēi fēi xiǎng gù, ér hái lái rù yú shēng sǐ zhě, wú yǒu shì chù. bù qǔ hòu shēng, yì fù bù jiàn shēng zhī chù suǒ.’ qí yōu tuó luó, suī dé rú shì jì jìng zhī fǎ shē mó tā xíng, ér bù bàn qiú zuì shàng shèng fǎ, wéi kǒu chēng yán: ‘wǒ fù luó mó, zuò rú shì shuō.’ pú sà rú shì sī wéi: ‘cǐ fǎ fēi shì jiū jìng, wǒ jīn bù yīng zhuān zhe cǐ fǎ.’ shě yōu tuó luó, jí biàn bèi xíng. ér yǒu jì shuō:

“ ‘pú sà sī wéi guān cǐ fǎ,　　luó mó wǎng xī suī fù xíng,
　　jì fēi jiě tuō jiū jìng chéng,　　jí biàn bèi xíng ér shě qù.’

fú běn xíng jí jīng quàn shòu shì lì pǐn dì èr shí bā shàng

[0757c29] "er shi, pu sa yu you tuo luo zuo ru shi yan: 'ren zhe! ci fa bu neng jiu jing jie tuo zhu yu, mie yu fan nao, ji ding yi xin, jin zhu jie lou, ji zhu shen tong, cheng sha men xing, dao da nie pan. ci fa hai hui ru yu sheng si. suo yi zhe he? ji sheng fei xiang fei fei xiang chu, bao jin hai hui ru yu fan nao.' zuo shi yu yi, qi you tuo luo bai pu sa yan: 'da de qu tan! ke bu wen zhi? wo fu luo mo, sui zheng ci fa, er yi qie chu bu jue bu zhi, yi sheng fei xiang fei fei xiang gu, er hai lai ru yu sheng si zhe, wu you shi chu. bu qu hou sheng, yi fu bu jian sheng zhi chu suo.' qi you tuo luo, sui de ru shi ji jing zhi fa she mo ta xing, er bu ban qiu zui shang sheng fa, wei kou cheng yan: 'wo fu luo mo, zuo ru shi shuo.' pu sa ru shi si wei: 'ci fa fei shi jiu jing, wo jin bu ying zhuan zhe ci fa.' she you tuo luo, ji bian bei xing. er you ji shuo:

" 'pu sa si wei guan ci fa, luo mo wang xi sui fu xing,
ji fei jie tuo jiu jing cheng, ji bian bei xing er she qu.'

fu ben xing ji jing quan shou shi li pin di er shi ba shang